By Lee Valentine Smith – Oui means yes and it’s also the title of the latest album from those crafty pop savants Nash Kato and Eddie “King” Roeser. For their first album in over a decade, the dynamic duo blend rock, catchy pop hooks and their trademark sparkle for a bright new collection of tunes.
For the uninitiated, a bit of history might be in order: Kato and Roeser, two native Minnesotans, met at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. Borrowing their name from Parliament’s “Funkentelechy,” the band emerged in 1984.
After issuing their debut EP Strange I… via Steve Albini’s Ruthless Records, Touch and Go Records quickly caught on, and thus Jesus Urge Superstar was born unto an unsuspecting world. As the decade shifted, the highly influential Americruiser,produced by Butch Vig, was one of the best releases of 1990.
By 1991, The Supersonic Storybook, again with Albini behind the board, ushered in an incredibly transformative time for the group. They were selected to open for Nirvana on both the American and European legs of the band’s now-legendary tour supporting Nevermind. When Pearl Jam offered them the opening slot on their Vs. tour, Urge Overkill was playing arenas.
In ’92, their Stull EP included a cover of Neil Diamond’s “Girl, You’ll Be a Woman Soon” and the band became a staple of alternative commercial radio programming. The next year, Saturation produced the inescapable hits “Sister Havana” and “Positive Bleeding,” eventually catching the attention of Quentin Tarantino. The music-loving film mogul included “Girl, You’ll Be a Woman Soon” in his 1994 film “Pulp Fiction.” Of course, the movie and accompanying soundtrack became critical and commercial successes, pushing Urge even deeper into much-deserved mass appeal. But then, after the well-received Exit the Dragon in ‘95, the band took an extended break.
Kato and Roeser retooled the unit and eventually released Rock & Roll Submarine in 2012.
Times and tastes have changed but Urge Overkill soldiers on, undaunted by trends or even global pandemics. In January, Urge Overkill issued Oui a decidedly juicy slab of alternative joy, spanning 12 new tracks – including and an unexpectedly cool cover of Wham’s “Freedom!”
Recently Nash Kato and King Roeser jumped on a conference call from their secret headquarters to discuss the album. During a lengthy conversation, talk quickly turned to their incredible journey from experimental art project to certified legends.
Guys, it’s great to finally speak with you. We shared some of the same spaces back in the ‘90s, but we’ve never actually talked at length. Now here we are, all these years later – in yet another crazy time for music, art and pop culture in general.
Nash: Well, it was a simpler time then, that’s for sure. There was less going on. There is indeed something for everyone today. I think at that time we were lucky, because rock guitars, as we say, ‘ruled the roost’ for a few years there.
King: And that was to our advantage. We’re pretty aware of being pretty lucky that our time in the spotlight coincided with rock. Generally, it was sort of grunge rock that was the thing that took over from hair rock.
Definitely. Labels were throwing money around, too. Obviously, it was mostly your own money, but they were throwing it at you and supporting videos, promo items and such.
Nash: Oh my God yes. They were throwing money at everything in the ‘90s! There was so much money flying about. We were lucky to grab some of it.
King: We were pretty decisive about what we did though. We did feel like we had some leverage then and we’d managed to build our catalog and our reputation. So by the time all that that happened in the ‘90s, people were talking about signing Touch and Go bands that were of that same ilk.
Nash: Right.
King: I have to say, unlike a lot of bands, we were very conscious about the people we worked with. I think we did get a good level of respect from our label. We weren’t just kind of casting about, chasing money. It really was something where I’m glad we had some time to fumble around and make some records for no money. By the time things came to a head with Nirvana, we sort of knew what we wanted and we weren’t starting from zero, as it were. Nor were most of the bands that we were friendly with; most of them had some idea of what they were doing and what they wanted to do. It’s the bands that kind of picked up guitars after Nirvana that I kinda feel sorry for, because we were already there, we knew what we wanted to do and we were able to kind of command the situation. I don’t harbor any ill will against the industry writ large – or anything like that. But certainly, things aren’t the same for youngsters who would be in our position now. However, they can easily make a record in their bedroom if they choose. That wasn’t yet an option for us. The recording gear was scarce and expensive. To do the things that we needed to do, you had to have some financing. It wasn’t a matter of the way it is now where you’ve got all this technology and anybody has access to it.
Do you think that is the biggest change you’ve seen over the years?
King: I think the technology, that’s a big thing – but I’m not sure that the democratization of information isn’t also very important as well. Just the fact that because of the internet, not only can anybody make a record, but maybe the more important thing is that you don’t have to go through a filter. I mean, to get on a label, you sort of had to prove that you were willing to play the game. Now there’s less of an investment, so you can go directly to the people. I think that people are able to find things and find artists that might not have the social or cultural skills to deal with those things back then. You had to deal with all these people to get a record made and you had to have a contract. Now, the business has kind of taken that part out of it. I think just the fact that the internet allows anybody to do it and there’s no middleman, like a label or a Rolling Stoneor an MTV. MTV was this huge juggernaut. They basically could decide who was going to do what. Now I don’t think that’s the case. It’s basically the loss of gatekeepers for good or for ill. But I think it’s cool. I think it was a more corrupt system than what you have now, where people really can speak. If you have something that’s going to touch a nerve, you can put it out there and people will find it. But also you find a lot of stuff that doesn’t really have much lasting power. So you have more flash in the pan type of artists that are maybe willing to do something that’s, what’s the word, like a novelty song, things like that.
Nash: Yeah, we live in a world now where apparently everybody’s a star, everyone’s a singer, everyone’s a model or whatever. So the system gets clogged. Didn’t use to be like that, obviously. But I guess we were just lucky timing. We’re lucky we got in when the gettin’ was good.
King: Yeah. It was fun to be able to do it the way we did. Anybody can make a video now. If you own a camera, you can edit it and it can look as perfect as all these professional videos. But at least we knew that when we were going to make a video, somebody was going to see it. We weren’t going to be doing stuff and just kind of toss it out there. It was done with the knowledge that this is going to have some weight to it. I think that was important, for us to sort of have this sense that we’re not going to have to struggle too much just to be heard. So, you were sort of in the league with maybe an audience that had followed you for a few years. And by then, you weren’t just the next new thing. So, it was easier, maybe, to be a band then, because it was understood that you had kind of a progression where you would have several people would understand that you were going to do a few records and you were going to follow along with a career and kind of make references to your past and then break new ground. Whereas, I feel now it’s always like your first album. It doesn’t matter how well your last one did. It could just disappear.
Nash: Yeah. It’s the old, ‘What have you done for us lately?’ kinda thinking.
Exactly. And that leads us to the new album, but before we leave this part of the conversation. I definitely want to ask you guys about, since you mentioned the Nirvana thing. You had been around, building the career, building an audience for a while before the big shows with Pearl Jam and Nirvana and all that. But still, that’s a big step up for any band. How did that feel in the middle of all that? You had worked to get to that point. Then, you were in the middle of that big whirlwind of activity.
Nash: Yeah. Well, I mean, we’d been on the road for years and a pretty seasoned live band, but that was a real jolt for us. It was unforeseen. All of a sudden we were rocking arenas. We were used to the little shitholes playing for nobody for so long. But it grew. We graduated to clubs and things. But all of a sudden we found ourselves in these big settings. That took some adjustment for sure. I think even for Nirvana, it was a shock. When we first started touring with them, we were still doing the small shitholes. I mean, granted the crowds were thicker – but literally, while we were on tour, Nevermind was really taking off. I think they were as surprised as we were. It was like, ‘What’s going on?’ All of a sudden the shows that were slated for these smaller venues were bumped up to these clubs and it just got bigger and bigger. And we were right there, on the right end. I mean, we didn’t have time to learn how to rock a stadium crowd. But all you could do was hold on tight and enjoy the ride, I guess. But we learned a lot. We certainly got a crash course and certainly with Pearl Jam, too. We’ve got a crash course in rocking an arena. It’s a whole different animal and I think we adjusted, but it took a while.
King: I mean, the pretense that we were already big rock stars when we made our first couple of records was, it only works if you really believe that that’s never going to happen. But the unthinkable happened where a band like Urge could really do it. Urge was started as kind of an art project and kind of a gag, if you will. But it quickly turned into this all too real situation. It was a very bizarre turn of events that nobody foresaw. I mean, the last thing, even Nirvana thought, that the jocks that they hated were going to be in the front row of their shows. I mean, especially for them, it was a head spinning thing. I think it led to very tragic results with Kurt just being like, ‘Oh, this isn’t what I had in mind.’ We didn’t have to deal with that as much. But it all happened remarkably quickly. Everybody was going to celebrate if Nirvana sold as many records as Sonic Youth, which was like 70,000. I mean, that was the thinking when that came out. So, it was really a head spinning time. And I think we all kind of… If you’re a young man on the scene, all of a sudden you’ve got a sandwich and you’re taking a sandwich to a banquet.
How did that sort of luxury feel, from the inside?
King: You’ve got anything you want for a while. But we didn’t go into the music game for those reasons.
Nash: Right.
King: We were music freaks and we were really inward looking.
Nash: We were certainly caught off guard, but I mean, the whole thing can be, for anyone but in particular, for us, I mean, it can all be filed under, ‘be careful what you wish for.’
King: Indeed.
That sort of moment, as you know, can make or break a band or a person or whatever. But you survived it and continue to make great new music. It seems like each new record is a new chapter. Even though this one’s been a long coming, it seems like each new Urge record is a brand new thing.
Nash: That’s how we’ve always viewed it. Every record is the next chapter of the seemingly endless book of Urge.
Oui is a solid chapter. Let’s talk about the process of this thing. Now, was this like everything else lately, born of the pandemic?
Nash: We definitely started first sewing the seeds, definitely pre-pandemic. Like everyone else, I mean no one saw that one coming. So it put a bit of a kibosh on things. But thankfully we were well underway before COVID with this project. We did some fine tuning and that sort of thing. We sort of lucked out timing wise, but it certainly delayed the release of the album.
King: Right. The record, for the most part, is not a reaction to it. I know a lot of people went into the pandemic and made records as they were locked down. I’m just glad that this thing is coming out after all of that because the spirit of the record is definitely pre-pandemic. The songs had definitely been kicking around for a while. There are a couple of brand-new ones but it was largely something that had been more delayed by the pandemic than influenced by it, I would say.
Yeah. Well, that’s good because there’s going to be way too much of that stuff floating around here in the next year or two. ‘Oh, God, another pandemic record.’
King: Right. So, this isn’t that.
I want to talk about the process a little bit. Do you think that, at this point in the game, you had all these years under your belt now. Has the process changed, as far as the songwriting and the general production of it? Or is it the same as it was back in ’84, ’85 when you first started?
Nash: I think it’s the same, wouldn’t you agree, Ed? I mean, we’ve been at this for, what? 30 some years now. So, we sort of have our schtick down and hopefully, you only get better at your craft. We can only hope that we have succeeded.
King: Yeah. I think one thing that I miss, and this hasn’t been true for a long time, but when we made our first records, it really wasn’t as easy as now. You didn’t have access to home recording or anything like that. So you had to perform because the clock was ticking in the studio. You had a few days to either make your record great or not. And if it wasn’t great, you weren’t going to get another at it next week. Or anytime. So the nature of being able to perfect things, I think, has changed the sound of our music. But it’s also changed the sound of everybody’s music. Nobody is under the gun now to make a record in a weekend.
Do you think that’s a positive change?
King: I think Urge, as a band, made interesting, creative choices because we had limited time. So that accounts for some of the bizarre and interesting sort of mistake-like charm of our early records. I miss that. I do miss that sense of like, ‘Okay, the guitar’s out of tune, how can we put this on a record?’ Well, there’s no time to change it. That would never happen now.
Nash: No.
I miss those days too, because everything was brand new, everything was experimental. Everything felt like we were still teenagers in a way.
King: Yeah. You didn’t have any time to polish and re-polish. Now all the juice tends to come out of the stuff. We had to consciously leave in things that sounded pleasurably wrong on this one. With the digital world, you have to stick your guns and stick to things that have some life to them.
Nash: (Laughs) Yeah, that’s what producers used to refer to as ‘the Urge charm.’ They would always refer to that, whenever we wanted to fix it and try to make it a little more perfect. They’d be like, ‘Yeah, but you’re sucking at the Urge charm.’ They always called it that. I guess it was their euphemism for ‘It’s just your fucked up way of playing this shit.’
Now that Oui is out in the world, what’s next for Urge Overkill?
Nash: Well we’re quite content with how Oui turned out and we’ll just promote it and see what happens. We’ve always been comfortable in the fact that we never know what’s next. We never plan that far into the future. We just sort of row with it, probably like most bands. And right now, here we are.
Are you planning to tour the new stuff?
King: We don’t know about the road yet, but the touring world is opening up. We’re definitely looking to be part of the roaring ‘20s when the time comes.
Nash: The new roaring ‘20s, yeah that’s us.
King: When everything finally opens up, it’s going to be an absolutely insane party. And I think Urge deserves to be the soundtrack for it.
Oui is available from www.omnivorerecordings.com/shop/oui
